Oh My Goodness!!

JediTricks

Jedi Council Member
Aug 14, 2001
38,506
102
46
Los Angeles, CA
www.geocities.com
Same price for us 100 miles north of JT. I think my employer would frown if I followed his plan of action...............;)
Just steal it from the Fire Department, chalk it up to a "friendly rivalry"... and hope they don't light your house on fire as a "retaliation prank". :p

My Mazda has a 15.5 gallon tank, I generally refuel at the quarter-tank range (the gauge mark is way off though) and it's around $33 for that. I always try to fill up so I can gauge my mileage (calculating the amount of gas I just put in - and thus used - against the trip odometer which I reset at every fillup), which has been floating between 23 and 25mpg lately (consistent for my 4-banger: 21 street, 28 hwy).


Premium gasoline (91 octane) isn't generally needed for a modern engine unless it's a higher-compression engine, mostly found only on German cars, where they get more explosion out of the gas in a tighter area via more precision and need that added extra bit to avoid knock and misfire. If you're putting it in your car and it doesn't say "premium fuel required" on the dash and/or fuel door, you're wasting your money (some cars say "premium recommended", like Jeep/Chryslers, there you can use regular 87 octane to save money and you'll only have a minuscule performance reduction). Now, were we talking about eking every last nanosecond out of your zero-to-sixty times, then it'd matter, but for the average SUV, your 0-60 times are embarrassing anyway and you won't notice the performance drop.
 

Exhaust Port

Jedi Apprentice
Jun 2, 2002
3,993
12
Sea World of Ohio
www.cbscoaches.com
My car says premium recommended (and its German) but I rarely put it in with no noticeable effects. I would be hard pressed to get any detonation unless I was doing some serious hill climbing or repeatedly burying the pedal which I do neither of. Detonation isn't limited to German cars and their perceived finer engineering. If you're running a turbo or supercharger or towing stuff you need the protection but farting down the road at 60 mph doesn't put the needed load on any engine.
 

JediTricks

Jedi Council Member
Aug 14, 2001
38,506
102
46
Los Angeles, CA
www.geocities.com
If it's a Mercedes, Porsche, or BMW, it's actively bad for your engine, it strains the systems trying to compensate for the lower octane and over time that puts more wear on the machinery. However, if it's a VW, they're not as fragile and precision-themed so it's not a problem.

And you're right about German cars not being the only ones, I was just using them as the example because most of the famous international auto brands that come out of there fall under this situation where other countries' car brands don't have this as overwhelmingly. And I left out "high performance" cars because, well, let's face it, if you don't know your high-priced sports car needs premium, you deserve to have it break down, teach your stupid *** a lesson. :p
 

Neuroleptic

Jedi Initiate
Nov 20, 2007
583
0
Wow uh . . . yall are seriously going to kill me when I say this, but I'v been complaining about gass going up to 3.15 here in Kansas lately. I know it'll go higher soon though, wich will suck. It costs me about 32 or 33 dollars to fill up my car tank when it's on the E.

Um . . . please don't hurt me. Im new to the board?
 

jedi master sal

Jedi Apprentice
Aug 16, 2001
4,349
2
52
The deep dark recesses of my brain.
Giant Eagle? I did the same thing when I needed to buy a tool from Home Depot. When to Giant Eagle, bought $100 gift card for the fuel points, then went next door and bought the tool from Home Depot. I had an employee at Home Depot tell me that a gentleman bought his whole kitchen setup with gift cards ($10,000+) so he could cash in on the fuel points at Giant Eagle. The best is when they offer double points (20 cents per $50 spent).

Ah cool, you know about Giant Eagle.

yeah, it's a great program.

Home Depot is there best selling gift card.

Contractors make use of them. (yet you know they don't pass that savings on to their customers...)

I have a further "advantage" (I'm sure you must get that reference, Exhaust Port.) of the fact that my fiancee works for their corporate office. So she knows what is going to be on sale, what cards will be double points, etc. If you go to their website, she maintains that and designs many of the graphics you see on the site.
 

Tycho

Sith Knight
Aug 16, 2001
20,947
26
San Diego, CA
www.sirstevesguide.com
Yeah, my V-8 Cherokee says to use Premium. Either way, it's not shaving much off the price to fill my tank.

I try to barely drive at all any more, combining errands, and reserving special trips for "fun days," like when I'm going out to do something special.

It costs $75 to fill my tank and I do my best to make that last the whole month, so I b*tch about having to drive any extra - more than I want to.

When I "go out," for any social life, I stick to the places that are very close by here and I can get turned down by just as many girls versus if I went downtown or the beach to have my fragile ego crushed. Meanwhile, it costs me less money to get abused locally.

I don't go on toy runs, but strategically do my shopping when I have connections at the stores telling me "now is the time." Also, when I can, I avail myself of HasbroToyShop and NewForceComics, amongst others. I've cut back so much (due to being uninterested / untempted mostly) that I won't have to go out shopping until almost summer!

So that's that. But I'm already over-spent on gas this month and I'm $50 behind what I budgeted for April's fuel as well. *sigh*
 

Exhaust Port

Jedi Apprentice
Jun 2, 2002
3,993
12
Sea World of Ohio
www.cbscoaches.com
If it's a Mercedes, Porsche, or BMW, it's actively bad for your engine, it strains the systems trying to compensate for the lower octane and over time that puts more wear on the machinery. However, if it's a VW, they're not as fragile and precision-themed so it's not a problem.

And you're right about German cars not being the only ones, I was just using them as the example because most of the famous international auto brands that come out of there fall under this situation where other countries' car brands don't have this as overwhelmingly. And I left out "high performance" cars because, well, let's face it, if you don't know your high-priced sports car needs premium, you deserve to have it break down, teach your stupid *** a lesson. :p

Modern cars, especially a luxury car, have "knock sensors" that adjust for different octane gas so you can run whatever you want in them. Here's a quote from a Porsche engineer:

All Porsche engines are designed for premium, too, but it's not available everywhere. "Our cars must be able to drive all over the world, and so we are able to run on regular," says Jakob Neusser, director of powertrain development at Porsche's research and development center in Weissach, Germany. "You don't have to feel that a mechanical problem or anything else will happen" using regular gas, even in the highest-performance, regular-production Porsches."

It's 99% advertising hype. The oil industry pushes premium gas since the profit margin is higher. Car manufacturers want to lead buyers to believe that their car is so finely tuned that only the best gas will do. As far as I've ever seen there has never been a formal study to indicate that a change in octane will change your mileage. The percentage change that most drivers claim to get could easily have been achieved by any number of different driving conditions between fillups.

A higher compression ratio by itself doesn't cause detonation, only atmospheric (higher air temps) and engine strain/work load will. A turbo/supercharged engine is preheating the incoming air which can lead to detonation no matter your compression ratio. So unless you bury the pedal on every start the knock detector doesn't even have to do any adjustment and possibly effect the top HP/Torque (but is someone really going to notice 1, 2, 3% less?)

I believe that octane hype is similar to what folks say about the sound quality of Bose equipment, "Better sound through better advertising". So "Better mileage/power through better advertising". It seems car forums are full of threads about this just like audio forums are full of talk about premium speaker cable.

jedi master sal said:
Ah cool, you know about Giant Eagle.

yeah, it's a great program.

Home Depot is there best selling gift card.

Contractors make use of them. (yet you know they don't pass that savings on to their customers...)

I have a further "advantage" (I'm sure you must get that reference, Exhaust Port.) of the fact that my fiancee works for their corporate office. So she knows what is going to be on sale, what cards will be double points, etc. If you go to their website, she maintains that and designs many of the graphics you see on the site.

That's sure is an awesome connection you have there. I'm a huge GE fan, especially since the introduction of Fuel Perks. They are very slowly rolling out more gas stations around us. They added one by my folks so they are pretty lucky. Our nearest one is still a 20 minute drive and we pass probably 5 gas stations on the way so it can be tough to cash in those savings at times.

I heard that they were having problems with the Government over their Fuel Perks program. It was something about the government not liking them discounted a federally taxed item or something like that. Did that ever blow over? I've found that you can't earn points when buying liquor because of the "sin" tax on it.
 

mtriv73

Jedi Apprentice
Feb 6, 2002
3,648
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$3.19 for me. Though since I belong to a fuel rewards program through my local grocery store, I often pay much less than the going rate.

I get 10 cents of PER GALLON, for every $50 I spend there. Not just groceries either, but gift cards for MANY different retailors. TRU included. On average I save 40 cents per gallon due to food purchases and gift cards. On an 18 gallon tank, that's an average of $7.20. So 2 1/3 gallons free basically.

You've got to love Giant Eagle. We may start shopping there (it's on the way home from work) rather than the Giant that is closer to home just for the gas savings.

I have been paying 3.19 for gas the last week or so.


Blacksburg/Christiansburg always seems to have the cheapest gas in the state. I always stop at the Sheets in Christiansburg to top off the tank on my way to my Dad's house.


I paid $3.27 a gallon yesterday for regular at Costco here in Frederick, MD. My manual says my car should only have premium, but that's cutting into my action figure money so I've switched without any noticable differences.
 

jedi master sal

Jedi Apprentice
Aug 16, 2001
4,349
2
52
The deep dark recesses of my brain.
That's sure is an awesome connection you have there. I'm a huge GE fan, especially since the introduction of Fuel Perks. They are very slowly rolling out more gas stations around us. They added one by my folks so they are pretty lucky. Our nearest one is still a 20 minute drive and we pass probably 5 gas stations on the way so it can be tough to cash in those savings at times.

I heard that they were having problems with the Government over their Fuel Perks program. It was something about the government not liking them discounted a federally taxed item or something like that. Did that ever blow over? I've found that you can't earn points when buying liquor because of the "sin" tax on it.

No problem with the GOV so far. Actually this is the first I've heard of it. GE is only a regional player, and there are by far many more gas stations around than they. So their small piece of the pie isn't making a dent in the GOV's budget. Hell, if anything, it's brought some relief to the average citizen that free's up money for other things. That enables consumers to spend that money elsewheres which could be a small boon to the local economy.

Edit: I just called my fiancee and asked her directly about the Tax/GOV thing. She says she hasn't heard anything about this. And she'd definitely know since she works in the corporate office. There would have been some office buzz about this if it were true. She's heard nothing,so it's business as usual.
 
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jedi master sal

Jedi Apprentice
Aug 16, 2001
4,349
2
52
The deep dark recesses of my brain.
You've got to love Giant Eagle. We may start shopping there (it's on the way home from work) rather than the Giant that is closer to home just for the gas savings.

Well, don't just shop there either. Besides shopping, as I mentioned, pick up your gift cards there. Here's some good advice, if you are already planning on going out to dinner, or buying from Toys R Us, etc., then stop by Giant Eagle, pick up the associated gift card (since you're already going to be spending the money at these places), and earn yourself free fuel while doing so.

Look for the "Get-go" gas stations besides the actual grocery stores. The Get-go's carry most of the gift cards as well, so you don't have to go so far out of the way. Get-go is the Giant Eagle gas station as you probably already know by now.
 

Exhaust Port

Jedi Apprentice
Jun 2, 2002
3,993
12
Sea World of Ohio
www.cbscoaches.com
I can't remember where I heard about the troubles with the government but I hope it's past (it has been a year or so since I last heard). I agree, every little bit helps.

Around here in NE Ohio the Get-Go's are well away from the stores. I expected it to be similar to the WalMart setup where they are in the parking lot of the store but not for us. I'm guessing the startup cost of a new gas station has to be astronomical. The one's I've seen have been converted from other chains.
 

jedi master sal

Jedi Apprentice
Aug 16, 2001
4,349
2
52
The deep dark recesses of my brain.
I can't remember where I heard about the troubles with the government but I hope it's past (it has been a year or so since I last heard). I agree, every little bit helps.

Around here in NE Ohio the Get-Go's are well away from the stores. I expected it to be similar to the WalMart setup where they are in the parking lot of the store but not for us. I'm guessing the startup cost of a new gas station has to be astronomical. The one's I've seen have been converted from other chains.

Yes, they are mostly converting old gas stations to new Get-go's. Though good news (I talked to her again), she says more Get-go's are coming to Ohio and specifically NE and closer to Cleveland. SO you are in luck! BTW, IIRC, she also said that most gift cards are currently 20 cents to the gallon per $50 spent. So you might want to look into that. Couple that with the Hasbro promotion and you could be saving quite a bit of money.

(Geez, I sound like I'm pimping the place....well I guess I am, lol.) Thanks for humoring me folks.

-Sal
 

Exhaust Port

Jedi Apprentice
Jun 2, 2002
3,993
12
Sea World of Ohio
www.cbscoaches.com
That's awesome news! The wife and I are keeping our fingers crossed that we get one in town. We are in an area of high traffic with a few large roads crossing and we have a GE so hopefully the financial numbers add up and they put one down the street.
 

jedi master sal

Jedi Apprentice
Aug 16, 2001
4,349
2
52
The deep dark recesses of my brain.
That's awesome news! The wife and I are keeping our fingers crossed that we get one in town. We are in an area of high traffic with a few large roads crossing and we have a GE so hopefully the financial numbers add up and they put one down the street.

What city are you in specifically? I can try to find out where the closest one is going to be for you (new in development). Can't promise I can get that info, but I'll try.

-Sal
 

JediTricks

Jedi Council Member
Aug 14, 2001
38,506
102
46
Los Angeles, CA
www.geocities.com
Yeah, my V-8 Cherokee says to use Premium. Either way, it's not shaving much off the price to fill my tank.
Jeep "recommends" mid-grade gas for the 5.7L V8, and "recommends" premium for the 6.1L V8, but they're only recommendations, you won't notice much of a power loss since you don't do a lot of hauling or high-performance driving. And it's a MASSIVE drain on your wallet, you're talking about a 30 cent difference per gallon, your car holds 20.8 gallons, that's a difference of about $6 per fillup, that ain't nothing.


It's 99% advertising hype. The oil industry pushes premium gas since the profit margin is higher. Car manufacturers want to lead buyers to believe that their car is so finely tuned that only the best gas will do. As far as I've ever seen there has never been a formal study to indicate that a change in octane will change your mileage. The percentage change that most drivers claim to get could easily have been achieved by any number of different driving conditions between fillups.

A higher compression ratio by itself doesn't cause detonation, only atmospheric (higher air temps) and engine strain/work load will. A turbo/supercharged engine is preheating the incoming air which can lead to detonation no matter your compression ratio. So unless you bury the pedal on every start the knock detector doesn't even have to do any adjustment and possibly effect the top HP/Torque (but is someone really going to notice 1, 2, 3% less?)
I've read several independent experts saying otherwise, that these types of engines use higher compression in a smaller space from the precision of the engine to eke out more power, and that using lower octane gas causes a less-controlled and premature burn in the cylinder before the piston reaches the top of its stroke, it's dieseling which is not good. Knock sensors retard timing to reduce this, but they only engage after a certain level of knock is achieved, and neither option is good for the engine. I tell you what, if I owned a Mercedes or a Porsche, I wouldn't put it to risk based on something I read on the internet attributed to "a Porsche engineer", those are expensive cars to repair.

Tycho, that is all fairly different from your American V8 motor, do the research, you'll see.


I have to fuel up in the next few days, and gas jumped another 6 cents or so around here, it's at $3.5x which makes me a sad panda. On the other hand, pounding the peddle today and blasting past all those SUVs on the freeway was great. (There was one Lexus SUV behind me which absolutely refused to do anything lower than 90mph, and since physics dictated my 80mph at the time was going to cause her to drive into me rather than safely through me, I changed lanes and let her blast by. She was crazy for going that fast in an SUV, but it was competently-handling so I can't knock her for it too much.)
 

Jedi_Kal-El

Jedi Apprentice
Jan 6, 2008
1,407
0
48
Delirious
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Well after going down to $3.24 yesterday, it shot up to $3.45 today(and that's for the cheapest). I new it was gonna go back up, but not that high in that short of time. At this rate it should top $4 by mid April, if not sooner. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to see an Amishman about a horse.