So, what did you think?

Mr. JabbaJohnL

Jedi Council Member
Nov 12, 2001
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It technically premieres tomorrow, but evening shows have been going on for a bit, and I saw it at 7 p.m.

HOLY WHAT!!!!! I need time to process it, but I thought it was absolutely amazing. It can drag a little bit here and there, but the final battle knocked me flat on my butt.

Full-on SPOILERS from here on out, but here are some initial flow-of-consciousness thoughts...

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I liked all the new characters. Reading (most of) Catalyst helped give backstory for Galen, Lyra, and Krennic, but Chirrut and K-2SO were definitely the standouts from the newbies. I could've used more Baze, and Bodhi's transformation was a little undercooked, though I know that was one thing that was modified in reshoots.

As for the reshoots, it's difficult to tell what was modified. There's a lot of stuff in the trailers that's not in the movie—for one, Jyn never wears her wrap on her head as she does on the figures and many images—so it will be interesting to see what we see on the Blu-ray.

The craziest, ballsiest effect was the recreation of Tarkin and Leia. Leia's face only appears for one shot, but Tarkin has a lot more screen time than I would have expected. Some of the lip sync was a little off, but he looked jarringly realistic. The surprise addition of Red Leader and Gold Leader was cool to see, using what appeared to be footage from ANH.

The final Vader scene completely rocked! I'm glad he didn't go as berserk as he did in the Vader Down comics, but they did just enough to be completely terrifying. I was about to jump out of my damn seat.

I really, really appreciated the prequel references. Even if briefly, we get to see Coruscant and Mustafar, as well as a turbo tank and, obviously, Bail Organa. Vader's castle was originally seen in an early ESB draft, but placing it on Mustafar was an interesting choice.

The ANH references were well done, for the most part. A lot of the TFA references feel kinda gratuitious, and the Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba scene flirted with that territory, but here it obviously made more sense, and they were less in-your-face and felt more organic to the story. I liked seeing the blue milk, anyway. There were shots of actors who looked like Biggs and Porkins in behind-the-scenes videos, but I didn't see them here.

As for Rebels references, I counted three: the Ghost as part of the fleet in at least two shots, a comm voice in the Yavin 4 base calling for "General Syndulla" (presumably Hera, but maybe even Cham?), and the absolutely awesome spotlight for the Hammerhead corvette, which Leia funneled to Kanan and Ezra in season two.

Clone Wars brought Saw Gerrera and the kyber crystals to the table but not a whole lot else, from what I could tell.
 

El Chuxter

Jedi Peacekeeper
Aug 16, 2001
20,460
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TFA references? I must've missed those.

Were Tarkin and Leia CG? I saw actors credited; did they superimpose Fisher's and Cushing's faces on their bodies?

I initially wondered about Wedge and Biggs. But Wedge joins in ANH, if the cut scenes apply, and Wedge clearly has never seen the Death Star prior to Yavin, so their absences fit. I did notice one pilot who slightly resembled Porkins, but not enough that I assumed it was him.
 

Maradona

Jedi Apprentice
Jun 25, 2007
2,315
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The final line of the film made tears well up in my eyes.

Seeing Vader's Mordor residence was an incredible treat.
 

Bel-Cam Jos

Jedi Council Member
Aug 16, 2001
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A little cheesy with the "choke on your [ambitions? desires?] line from Vader; and he had red eyes! But overall I was impressed almost from the start, even with the long flashback before the title even appeared. Liked the clear bottom of the Rebel command ship to view the planet. "Stolen data tapes" really makes perfect sense now. "I have a bad feeling ab-" getting cut off; interesting choice. Obi-Wan referenced indirectly (and ALL of Bail's appearances) was nice.

Need to see this again, and sooner than later.

I posted these in a different (likely the wrong) thread, so here they are in duplicate:

- BEST. DARTH VADER. FIGHT. EVER. Hands down; no contest.
- Grand Moff Tarkin threw me for a loop, once they cut to his face. Wow! (not as pleased with the princess at the end )
- loved the ANH X-Wing pilot cockpit shots
- The Whills! "May the Force of Others Be With You." What else from the early ideas will become movie terms?
- what's with all the crotch shots? I noticed one stormtrooper get blasted in the codpiece (odd), then it happened again, and at least a third time; someone's hitting a bit below the belt on those...
- blue milk!
- well, now all those palm trees in Orlando, FL will seem like a SW set
- my prediction of WHEN the movie would end (with particular scene(s) ) was right
- the uniforms as patchwork Rebels ones over the various OT films was great
 

JediTricks

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Aug 14, 2001
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JabbaJohn, Bikerscout, and I saw it in XD cinema yesterday, along with a child kicking our seatbacks and a baby crying in front of us.

First off, XD is a fantastic screen in search of a brighter projector, but the visuals were good and BIIIIG, and the audio was top drawer. It was also $14 cheaper than the corresponding matinee price of the IMAX in Century City and $10 cheaper than the laser IMAX at the Chinese Theater in Hollywood, although they both have 3D (which I didn't want). Bikerscout is gonna see it in IMAX as well, hopefully he can clue me in on the quality difference.

Now, as to the meat of what I thought...

Rogue One is pretty good, but maybe too overwrought and bombastic for its own good. It's enjoyable, and aside from a pair of uncanny-valley characters and some shakeycam, good to look at; but I could see enjoying it more with LESS story. I could have spent more time with Chirrut easily, but there's a lot of parts of the story with Jyn where she's just a passive character making bitter puppydog eyes and Cassian being unlikable and hard to understand that the story could have done without. There's a point in the Rebel base where the film becomes a second movie almost and it could have cherrypicked a lot out beforehand to just tell that story instead. It feels its length and a little more than.

The movie production looks great, but the first two-thirds are almost woefully dark, this was maddening at times. The use of title cards for the planets that the main characters go to was frustrating, the film jumps around a lot in the first half from planet to planet, and whenever our heroes travel TO someplace it gets a card in English text that's distracting and feels out of place for a Star Wars film.

As a fan, I was uncomfortable with how the film reframed the Rebellion, first through Cassian's dirty dealings at every turn (until he finds the love of a good woman, which was an eyeroll and hopefully not a conscious writing decision) because it made them as bad as the Empire; and then with the Alliance council not backing the mission to take the plans. The Rebellion is now 18 years out from its humble beginnings in ROTS, there should be no question that they have real goals, and to take away their drive to take down the Death Star just makes them a limp dishrag of an organization. The film tries to buff that by removing their belief in the Death Star altogether, but that merely makes them fools too cowardly to explore threats when learning of Jedha's destruction (which they conveniently don't mention in the council meeting, despite rebel soldiers later carrying "For Jedha!" as their rallying cry). The rebellion's first victory shouldn't be a battle forced upon them by circumstance and the actions of one rogue squadron -- they're ALL rogues already.

This certainly achieved a feel of a modern Star Wars film in a way that The Force Awakens didn't. This was about something, it built a new universe from the old without feeling out of place or shallow. It used touchstones properly (except Ponda and Evazan but that was played almost for laughs, doubly so when you realize THEY ARE NOW DEAD ON JEDHA A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE EVENTS OF MOS EISLEY, yet I still gave it a pass because it felt played for chuckles rather than credibility). And yet it didn't feel like a retread or rehash. Even the chief Imperial, Director Krennic, felt like a new take on the Imperials without being out of place, a man desperate for standing and recognition in the Empire.

Rogue One didn't make me want to buy a bunch of toys. I already have the 6" Deathtrooper and K-2SO, and the Titanium U-Wing, TIE Striker, Death Star, and Rogue One herself the Imperial Cargo Shuttle, and aside from maybe a Chirrut figure that's all I really want. That might strike retailers and Hasbro a little hard, we'll see.

Overall, Rogue One works pretty well, it balances the needs of the fans with the needs of telling a grittier, more modern story in the right way. It's a little too long and there are some flaws, but largely it holds up well.
 

Bel-Cam Jos

Jedi Council Member
Aug 16, 2001
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Now realizing the timing of end-of-R1 and start-of-ANH, I didn't even think about Ponda and the Doc being "dead" too soon.

Did anybody notice an "In Memory of Kenny Baker" line in the credits? I didn't see one. :(
 

Droid

Jedi Apprentice
Aug 21, 2003
2,355
4
I enjoyed the movie.

My gut is that it is better than Episodes I and II, but maybe not as good as Episode III. It is nowhere close to the OT. I didn't see TFA.

Like the prequels, I left the movie thinking that it does not quite match up with what we were told in the original trilogy. But I thought it was a good movie.

I enjoyed the new stuff quite a bit and my biggest problems were with stuff matching up to the existing films. I wish there had been less fan service. I do have to say I am very impressed they killed everyone. They say there won't be a sequel, but that's crazy. It's so obvious. Rogue Two: Many Bothans Die.

I like seeing Vader's castle. I think it is nonsense that it is on Mustafar, as the filmmakers have now said. I think Vader's eyes were too red and I LOATHE that they gave Vader a pun. "Choke on your aspirations" or whatever. So dumb. NEVER try to make Vader funny.

I am conflicted about people kneeling to Vader.

I also loved the references to the Force of Others and the Whills, but I do think it is a bit of a problem for Star Wars that like Vader's castle, every rejected idea is considered something that just didn't find its time yet, that should eventually be used. Every McQuarrie painting. Every script idea. Some things should be discarded and left there. But I thought it was really neat for Whills to be in film canon.

I loved Vader storming down the hallway, how could you not? But, I had the same reaction of watching Yoda fight in Episode II. You may enjoy eating an entire bag of candy, but you regret it later. I don't think Yoda leaping around did a service to the character and the mysticism he had in Empire. Similarly, we saw Vader in Episodes IV-VI, never engaging individual soldiers in combat. He fought people trained in the Force. He flew his TIE Fighter in battle. But he marched through battles, unafraid and as if the entire situation was beneath him. He did not go slicing through the Rebels on Echo Base on Hoth. MINUTES after he had killed the Rebel Fleet Troppers in Rogue One, in ANH he lets Stormtroopers go in and fight the initial battle and he strolls in to survey the damage. He doesn't come charging in alone like a video game throwing Rebels around and snatching all their guns at once. And it did look a bit CGI to me. It was awesome, but should have been left out given that it does not even match his behavior of minutes later.

They shouldn't have shown R2 and 3P0, unless they were on the Blockade Runner.

Having Ponda Baba and Walrusman is ABSURD since days later they should be in Mos Eisley and they probably DIED in the Death Star attack.

The dialogue of ANH clearly, clearly suggests the Death Star is not yet operational. That there is more work to do. The Director offers to blow up the entire moon/planet where the Jedi Temple was. Tarkin says no. So the Death Star was already fully operationl in Rogue One; dialogue in ANH says it was not.

There should have been a lot, lot less Tarkin given the uncanny valley problem. They could have just had Krennic in charge and when he died Tarkin was brought in to run the station. And Leia just looked terrible, which is baffling to me. She didn't have to say anything and they didn't have to draw her. They could have just edited in footage of her from ANH.

I know someone will say we did not see AT-ATs, we saw AT-CTs, but the AT-ATs were blown apart far too easily. (That armor's too strong for blasters.) First, if X-wings can destroy them, then there were X-wings at Echo base and they should have used them. Second, the little alien guy uses some little side cannon to decimate them. It undermined how imposing they are supposed to be and Luke's plan to take them down.

I loved the space battle and thought the shield gate was a neat idea. But I didn't like having a Mon Calamari command ship and hated having the order given to engage the Star Destroyers at point blank range. That was Lando's idea and was viewed as crazy in Jedi. I would have rather it was more of a X-wing dog fight than a Endor redo. I thought it was so neat to see the pilots from ANH edited in, but it bothers me that the Death Star was actually there. I don't like to think the Rebels had TWICE flown out of Yavin base and been at a battle where the Death Star was. I don't think anyone thought that in ANH when the Rebels won their first victory against the Empire and stole the plans that the Death Star was at the battle. I don't think anyone thought in ANH that several Rebel pilots had already seen the Death Star.

And I didn't like that the Rebel fleet was there. The actual Rebel fleet. I kind of feel like in Jedi that was the first time the Rebel fleet ever engaged the Empire. I do think that it makes sense that if the fleet was in Rogue One it explains why they only had X-wings and Y-wings in the assault, but it still bugged me.

Maybe the purposeful design flaw should have been that whenever you fired the super laser the whole station blew up? Just sayin...

The movie suffered from the prequel situation that bugged me that you can apparently be anywhere in the galaxy in minutes.

I am totally conflicted on whether I would have liked this, but I REALLY thought the blind fellow was going to use the Force to pull that lever. A lifetime of belief for one crowning moment of that belief. I think I would have liked it. Getting back to the idea that the Force comes from believing in it and yourself rather than a blood test.

The score was meh, but got better as it went along I thought.

The droid was funny and a nice addition. I'm surprised there wasn't an alien in the main cast.

Bail has aged well compared to Ben.

Excellent casting for Mon Mothma. You really believe it's the same person.

I don't think Jyn would have a toy Stormtrooper given who her parents were.

I thought the film started slow and was really jumpy from place to place at first.

I don't like that the Rebellion leaders were not prepared to try to steal the Death Star plans and that the entire mission only happened because Rebels broke ranks. I'm glad they suggested Bail and Mon Mothma disagreed if they were going that route.

That mind reading monster was totally unnecessary, particularly given how the pilot didn't really go "crazy" like was suggested was going to happen. Also, Saw had the hologram from his old friend. Just watch it and then you don't need to interrogate the pilot. I also thought it was weird that everyone kept saying "Imperial pilot" as though you can spot one by looking at him. And, I assume there have been a lot of defections from the Empire to the Rebellion. They acted like it was unheard of.

Saw's death seemed like really, really lazy writing.

I think they should have only gone to Yavin once. It felt like everyone kept going back to Yavin every five minutes. Which brings me to the fact that Vader shows up at the battle of Scarif. Odd to me the way there didn't seem to be a big crash when his ship blocked the Rebel ship from going to hyperspace. Seems like there were any number of Rebels that could have been taken prisoner there that were just at Yavin that Vader could have used the mind probe on, that wouldn't have had the same resistance to that Leia did. In ANH Leia is supposed to be "my only link to finding their secret base." Implying even a lot of Rebels haven't been to Yavin. That it is upper level information. But seems like Vader had a LOT of links to finding their secret base.

And I thought from the opening crawl of ANH that it was the Rebellion's first victory. Why was this a victory? Sure they won the battle, but then Vader showed up and destroyed everything. The plans got away, but the crawl said that there was a victory and the spies stole the plans not that the Rebels ultimately lost another battle but got away with the plans. Vader shouldn't have shown up there and decimated the survivors.

Which brings me to my last point. One of the BIG flaws of Episode III was the way they rushed through everything just so that when the credits rolled everyone was in exactly the place we saw them when Episode IV started. So Padme died and Leia had no extended relationship with Padme that Luke didn't. Rogue One suffered from the same problem. I know the line between spy and soldier may be a thin one, but Vader said, "I have traced the Rebel SPIES to her." I don't feel like we saw a spy or spying in this movie.

The opening crawl of ANH tells us that Rebel SPIES stole the plans. Everything felt so rushed at the end of the movie. Bail was on Yavin. He was going to go to Alderaan to tell them to expect war, which is weird since Alderaan is peaceful. But he says he'll send Leia to go get Obi-wan. 3P0 and R2 watch the Rebels leaving for Scarif. I really didn't think Leia, the Blockade Runner, R2 and 3P0 were at the battle of Scarif. But sure enough, they were.

Didn't you think from watching ANH that Leia was going to get Obi-wan from Tatooine, but then the Rebel SPIES transmitted the plans to her on the Blockade Runner, so she was going to alter her course and go back to Alderaan? The opening crawl tells us she was racing home aboard her starship. But then it seemed like the Empire traced the transmission and intercepted her, so she decides to go ahead and get the plans to Obi-wan. Then she is caught and says she is a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic misison. Why in the Rogue One world would she go to Scarif? How could she have explained being found there given her diplomatic cover? Leia says, "Darth Vader, only you could be so bold." Yeah, real bold pursuing you from the site of a Rebel battle. I just do not believe watching Episode IV that the Blockade Runner, with Leia aboard was at Scarif. And they even said the plans were beamed onto the Blockade Runner, not run down a hallway on a disk. Bail said he was sending Leia to get Obi-wan, but instead sent his daugther into the actual battle where they were trying to steal the plans? It just doesn't make sense.

And when Leia flees the battle, with the Death Star plans, why run off to Tatooine to get Ben? The Rebels have three secrets: the location of their base, the Death Star plans, and a stashed Jedi. Leia is at a battle site and runs off with those plans to go get Ben? Gold Leader and Red Leader went back to Yavin. But Leia had to take the plans off to Tatooine? Why not just use your hyperspace and go back to Yavin with the plans, making ANH irrelevant? No one was tracking the Blockade Runner like the Falcon. You could have gone to get Ben later. It wasn't like anyone thought you needed Ben to attack the Death Star.

Leia's hologram to Obi-wan said she was coming to get him, but her ship had fallen under attack. It just seems like she was going to get Ben, when she HAPPENED to come into possession of the plans. Not that she WENT to the battle where the plans were stolen and then fled to Tatooine. Pick a mission, Leia. Pick a mission.

I actually would have had the battle be in the middle of the movie, and have had SPIES trying to get the plans into the hands of the Rebellion, with Vader in pursuit, before they ended up in Leia's hands while on a mission to go get Obi-wan. It wouldn't have worked as a 2 hour movie as well, but it would have matched the dialogue of the original trilogy, which is the main failing of the four Star Wars prequels we have seen to date. Constantly avoiding the clear intent of original trilogy dialogue.

I enjoyed this movie though. I have enjoyed every Star Wars movie I have seen. (Didn't see TFA). But I just don't understand why they always try so hard to make everything be from a certain point of view rather than just showing the story the OT dialogue told us about.

Good movie. Not perfect. But entertaining.
 

El Chuxter

Jedi Peacekeeper
Aug 16, 2001
20,460
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(except Ponda and Evazan but that was played almost for laughs, doubly so when you realize THEY ARE NOW DEAD ON JEDHA A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE EVENTS OF MOS EISLEY, yet I still gave it a pass because it felt played for chuckles rather than credibility)
That didn't bother me too much. I figured they were on the way out of Jedha when they bump into Jyn. Even if not, the ensuing battle probably made them decided to get out of Dodge. It had to take some time to evacuate the Imperial occupation to a safe distance, so them getting off Jedha, only to run into their eventual end in Mos Eisley very shortly afterward, was plausible.

I LOATHE that they gave Vader a pun. "Choke on your aspirations" or whatever. So dumb. NEVER try to make Vader funny.
Why not? Anakin cracked wise every chance he got, and the very first film has a very dry Vader joke ("I find your lack of faith disturbing").
 

JediTricks

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Aug 14, 2001
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I think I want to see Rogue One again, which is good because after The Force Awakens I didn't want to - and haven't - seen it a second time.


So, it still sticks in my craw that the Death Star's vulnerability is an intentional design flaw rather than the Rebellion finding one. ANH drills home the idea of the plans might be used for this, the rebels need to study, there might be hope if they can find the answer - ANH makes it feel like the plans are no assurance of success, that the rebels are incredibly desperate and low on time but they figure it out in the end and fight against odds to achieve success. By taking that out of their hands, it takes that weight out of the ANH story (and the ROTJ one since the same cascading explosion is used, just not via the external exhaust port). I get that this is the driving force behind RO's entire storyline for Jyn Erso who is the keystone to the story, but I still would have preferred a different throughline to get Jyn to her father than this.

Also, coming off of that, if Galen Erso is this noble and angry that he's spent 15 years creating a subtle flaw that will destroy the thing, why does he duff the whole thing at the last minute when Krennic threatens to kill Galen's scientific team? It's off-note, either you have burning rage and want to see it through at all costs which means you'll stand stone-faced under threat, or you won't and you never would have gotten this far. It was an ill fit for me, though not a story-breaker.


Did anybody notice an "In Memory of Kenny Baker" line in the credits? I didn't see one. :(
We looked, didn't see one.

Like the prequels, I left the movie thinking that it does not quite match up with what we were told in the original trilogy. But I thought it was a good movie.

I enjoyed the new stuff quite a bit and my biggest problems were with stuff matching up to the existing films.
Like what? It works pretty hard to match up, although it squeaks by on things like "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies" since you have to interpret that pretty broadly to get there, they were beamed to another ship and physically handed to troopers on this ship.

I think Vader's eyes were too red and I LOATHE that they gave Vader a pun. "Choke on your aspirations" or whatever. So dumb. NEVER try to make Vader funny.
Agreed on both, and I suspect they didn't even realize they were writing a Bond action one-liner with that. It was labored.

I am conflicted about people kneeling to Vader.
I hadn't thought about that before, but he's not someone they kneel to in ANH, that's an interesting point.

I loved Vader storming down the hallway, how could you not? But, I had the same reaction of watching Yoda fight in Episode II. You may enjoy eating an entire bag of candy, but you regret it later. I don't think Yoda leaping around did a service to the character and the mysticism he had in Empire. Similarly, we saw Vader in Episodes IV-VI, never engaging individual soldiers in combat. He fought people trained in the Force. He flew his TIE Fighter in battle. But he marched through battles, unafraid and as if the entire situation was beneath him. He did not go slicing through the Rebels on Echo Base on Hoth. MINUTES after he had killed the Rebel Fleet Troppers in Rogue One, in ANH he lets Stormtroopers go in and fight the initial battle and he strolls in to survey the damage. He doesn't come charging in alone like a video game throwing Rebels around and snatching all their guns at once. And it did look a bit CGI to me. It was awesome, but should have been left out given that it does not even match his behavior of minutes later.
I fully agree with this, felt it during the scene, but by then the movie's bombast had already announced itself as being larger than life so I wasn't even let down the way I was with Yoda.

The dialogue of ANH clearly, clearly suggests the Death Star is not yet operational. That there is more work to do. The Director offers to blow up the entire moon/planet where the Jedi Temple was. Tarkin says no. So the Death Star was already fully operationl in Rogue One; dialogue in ANH says it was not.
Tagge says the Death Star is not yet fully operational, but what does that mean? Does that mean the superlaser is still undergoing testing? Does it mean the shields are not yet operating at full strength? That the turbolaser batteries don't have comms operational? We aren't really told, but Motti in ANH makes clear that the station is quite safer than the Imperial starfleet in its current state. So the meaning is vague, and it's obvious they are playing around with truths in that scene, some are trying to bolster their standing in the starfleet while others are trying to rely on their standing in the Death Star, and Tarkin in RO is clearly keeping decisions political and close to the vest.


There should have been a lot, lot less Tarkin given the uncanny valley problem. They could have just had Krennic in charge and when he died Tarkin was brought in to run the station. And Leia just looked terrible, which is baffling to me. She didn't have to say anything and they didn't have to draw her. They could have just edited in footage of her from ANH.
I agree that Tarkin was deep in the uncanny valley, although I think the clarity on his skin, eyes, and mouth ultimately is what did it in for me. They'd do these shot-reverse shot scenes between Tarkin and Krennic, their skin shouldn't be that different but it's wildly highlighted as realistic vs. overly realistic. I think Tarkin could have worked with a little less clarity on his features.

But Leia didn't work for me as soon as she opened her mouth, she looked acceptable right until her mouth moved and looked 100% wrong.


I know someone will say we did not see AT-ATs, we saw AT-CTs, but the AT-ATs were blown apart far too easily. (That armor's too strong for blasters.) First, if X-wings can destroy them, then there were X-wings at Echo base and they should have used them. Second, the little alien guy uses some little side cannon to decimate them. It undermined how imposing they are supposed to be and Luke's plan to take them down.
Well, they're cargo walkers, not as heavily armed or armored as AT-ATs I guess. Also, the X-wings didn't engage the AT-ATs on Hoth, no proton torpedoes or bombs were used against walkers, my argument is that it was too much weather on Hoth to use those fighters against the walkers (note the Empire doesn't send TIE Bombers against the Echo Base either) but that's speculative. I do agree that we are shown the walkers seem invulnerable right until the starfighters tear them to shreds super quick tho.

it bothers me that the Death Star was actually there. I don't like to think the Rebels had TWICE flown out of Yavin base and been at a battle where the Death Star was.
That's an interesting point, it's a bit repetitive.

I don't think anyone thought in ANH that several Rebel pilots had already seen the Death Star.
They hadn't, they jumped away before the Death Star was in their view. It's cheap.

And I didn't like that the Rebel fleet was there. The actual Rebel fleet. I kind of feel like in Jedi that was the first time the Rebel fleet ever engaged the Empire. I do think that it makes sense that if the fleet was in Rogue One it explains why they only had X-wings and Y-wings in the assault, but it still bugged me.
That's your presumption though. The ANH crawl says that "Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to theEmpire's ultimate weapon, the Death Star, an armored space station with
enough power to destroy an entire planet." So the opening crawl says the fleet should be there, they should leave Yavin and won a battle. What bugs me is that RO makes it feel like the Rebel Alliance has never engaged the Empire before, but how can you have a "first victory" if there were not prior battles where you lost?



Maybe the purposeful design flaw should have been that whenever you fired the super laser the whole station blew up? Just sayin...
Noooo, that would be easy to detect and then correct. The logic of making the flaw subtle and difficult to notice is the right way to go if the writers are going to force the intentional flaw angle.


I am totally conflicted on whether I would have liked this, but I REALLY thought the blind fellow was going to use the Force to pull that lever. A lifetime of belief for one crowning moment of that belief. I think I would have liked it. Getting back to the idea that the Force comes from believing in it and yourself rather than a blood test.
Chirrut was great, and I think the way it played out was WAAAAAY better than the Force itself moving that lever. He believed enough that the Force was used subtly, it kept him from being shot when he absolutely needed it to be, he was more focused in it than he had ever been and it got him there, but it didn't make him a Jedi, it just got him to the ridiculous out-in-the-open lever. This lets audiences see it as either his faith got him there, the Force got him there, or he was just lucky without beating any viewpoint over the head.

The score was meh, but got better as it went along I thought.
Agreed. I don't really like Michael Giacchino's scores much, he knows how to sound big without really being in the way much, but I see him as more the flavor of the moment because he works with certain players. The whole Rogue One soundtrack is on Youtube from DisneyMusic themselves, listen legally:
https://www.youtube.com/user/DisneyMusicVEVO/videos

I am curious what others think of this score more divorced from the film.

Bail has aged well compared to Ben.
Not living in a filthy desert under burning-hot twin suns for 20 years helps.

Excellent casting for Mon Mothma. You really believe it's the same person.
Same actress from Ep 3.

I don't think Jyn would have a toy Stormtrooper given who her parents were.
She grew up on Coruscant when they were the police and everywhere, it didn't seem that out of place to me, but I can see where it was a stretch.

I thought the film started slow and was really jumpy from place to place at first.
That's because it's objectively true.

Saw's death seemed like really, really lazy writing.
And yet still not as offensive as Pa Kent in Man of Steel.

And I thought from the opening crawl of ANH that it was the Rebellion's first victory. Why was this a victory? Sure they won the battle, but then Vader showed up and destroyed everything. The plans got away, but the crawl said that there was a victory and the spies stole the plans not that the Rebels ultimately lost another battle but got away with the plans. Vader shouldn't have shown up there and decimated the survivors.
Aside from the Death Star and Vader's Star Destroyer, everything at Scarif was either destroyed by the Rebel fleet or by the Death Star. They defeated the Imperial starfleet over Scarif though.

Which brings me to my last point. One of the BIG flaws of Episode III was the way they rushed through everything just so that when the credits rolled everyone was in exactly the place we saw them when Episode IV started. So Padme died and Leia had no extended relationship with Padme that Luke didn't. Rogue One suffered from the same problem. I know the line between spy and soldier may be a thin one, but Vader said, "I have traced the Rebel SPIES to her." I don't feel like we saw a spy or spying in this movie.
Cassian Andor is clearly a spy, he's duplicitous, secretive, alone, and an assassin when the mission calls for it. The other spies like him are who join Jyn Erso to form Rogue One, they are the ones who rally around this mission when the Alliance council doesn't believe in it. Until the second U-wing lands, everybody on the ground at Scarif is a spy; they mostly hide, sneak, lie, deceive, and sabotage.

Why in the Rogue One world would she go to Scarif? How could she have explained being found there given her diplomatic cover? Leia says, "Darth Vader, only you could be so bold." Yeah, real bold pursuing you from the site of a Rebel battle. I just do not believe watching Episode IV that the Blockade Runner, with Leia aboard was at Scarif. And they even said the plans were beamed onto the Blockade Runner, not run down a hallway on a disk. Bail said he was sending Leia to get Obi-wan, but instead sent his daugther into the actual battle where they were trying to steal the plans? It just doesn't make sense.

And when Leia flees the battle, with the Death Star plans, why run off to Tatooine to get Ben? The Rebels have three secrets: the location of their base, the Death Star plans, and a stashed Jedi. Leia is at a battle site and runs off with those plans to go get Ben? Gold Leader and Red Leader went back to Yavin. But Leia had to take the plans off to Tatooine? Why not just use your hyperspace and go back to Yavin with the plans, making ANH irrelevant? No one was tracking the Blockade Runner like the Falcon. You could have gone to get Ben later. It wasn't like anyone thought you needed Ben to attack the Death Star.
Yeah, the way RO did this doesn't really fit with the way ANH set it up, plans were beamed to her ship, being chased from the battle itself doesn't work, but I think RO slickly gets away with this by simply not caring, not putting so much weight into Bail and Leia's words and deeds that they weigh the film down. They're there, it's clumsy how it's done, but ending the film with some guys at the battle beaming Leia's corvette wouldn't be as bombastic, and it's clear they wanted that.
 

Mad Slanted Powers

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May 20, 2002
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JediTricks said:
(except Ponda and Evazan but that was played almost for laughs, doubly so when you realize THEY ARE NOW DEAD ON JEDHA A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE EVENTS OF MOS EISLEY
That didn't bother me too much. I figured they were on the way out of Jedha when they bump into Jyn. Even if not, the ensuing battle probably made them decided to get out of Dodge. It had to take some time to evacuate the Imperial occupation to a safe distance, so them getting off Jedha, only to run into their eventual end in Mos Eisley very shortly afterward, was plausible.
I agree. They had plenty of time to get off the planet between the time we saw them and the time the Death Star attacked.


I LOATHE that they gave Vader a pun. "Choke on your aspirations" or whatever. So dumb. NEVER try to make Vader funny.
Why not? Anakin cracked wise every chance he got, and the very first film has a very dry Vader joke ("I find your lack of faith disturbing").
Also, I think some of his lines in ESB can be seen as kind of funny: "Apology accepted, Captain Needa", "We would be honored if you would join us", and "Perhaps you feel you are being treated unfairly?"

I do agree that the first part of the movie jumped around a bit much, but once we got to Yavin the first time, everything flowed much better.

Other than that, my only nitpicking complaint was similar to what others here have said. How Leia got the plans doesn't quite match up with what we know from ANH. I was expecting one of the ships would get out of there, rendezvous with the Tantive IV, which would receive the plans and head for Tatooine. If she was at the battle, I would have expected the ship to arrive, get the transmission, and leave. In ANH, Vader said "you weren't on any mercy mission this time", as if she had a history of showing up to help those in need. So, I could imagine her showing up to a battle to aid the wounded or displaced, and using that as an excuse to be there. Her ship was docked with the ship that did get the plans. If they didn't find them on that ship, perhaps Vader assumed they were beamed to the Tantive IV.

I'm not sure about people's complaints about Tarkin and Leia. Tarkin did look a bit fake, but I thought it was a good likeness in both sight and sound. Leia seemed just fine to me, and she was on the screen so briefly that I didn't really get to see much of a performance to tell one way or the other.
 

figrin bran

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May 4, 2002
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I enjoyed it and thought there were a lot of great elements. However, as soon as the film began with the lack of opening crawl and the theme music, it became a "high floor/low ceiling" effort to me. To eschew something so woven into the fabric of Star Wars seems like such folly. Despite the claims of being a "stand alone" story, it's completely woven into ANH anyhow so it's quite disingenuous to me.

Giacchino seems to do his best work in Pixar films which tend to be lighter "slice of life" thoroughfare. I consider Rey's Theme to be a masterpiece with all of its motifs and there's nothing even close to that here. I understand that Mr. Williams may not be available but that doesn't mean that other composers aren't able to come up with great themes.

To me, something was not right about Vader's mannerisms and I'm not even talking about the final scene.

The cause against Cassian has been mentioned already in this thread...comes across to me as more of a Christopher Nolan sort of character which is fine except we don't see this kind of greyness in Rebel characters in the OT. And he definitely shot first ;)

On a more positive note, I do like that the events in AHN are given more weight. Love that Chirrut and Baze are Guardians of the Whills! All the Rebels easter eggs were great - General Syndulla!!! Hera presumably because if they thought Saw was extremist, Cham would never stand a chance. The U-wing got quite a bit of screen time which is great because I bought 4 different versions of it already.
 

Bel-Cam Jos

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Agreed on both, and I suspect they didn't even realize they were writing a Bond action one-liner with that. It was labored.

But Leia didn't work for me as soon as she opened her mouth, she looked acceptable right until her mouth moved and looked 100% wrong.

Chirrut was great, and I think the way it played out was WAAAAAY better than the Force itself moving that lever. He believed enough that the Force was used subtly, it kept him from being shot when he absolutely needed it to be, he was more focused in it than he had ever been and it got him there, but it didn't make him a Jedi, it just got him to the ridiculous out-in-the-open lever. This lets audiences see it as either his faith got him there, the Force got him there, or he was just lucky without beating any viewpoint over the head.

I am curious what others think of this score more divorced from the film.

Not living in a filthy desert under burning-hot twin suns for 20 years helps.
Puns are different than funny lines (believe me, with my history posting on this site, my OWN puns are rarely funny :rolleyes: ), and the "choke" line could've been funnier implying that, rather than explicitly stating the word.

I thought a seen-from-behind (or the awesome reflection-in-the-glass-panel one when Tarkin first showed up) look of Leia, HEARING her words but not seeing her face, would've been much stronger.

If Chirrut did that, had a brief realization, then was shot, it would make the audience saddened that yet another Force untapped potential was lost to the galaxy, extending the Emperor's purge. :(

When I buy the soundtracks, I listen to them as soon as I can after seeing the film, and I can almost always connect the track to the specific scene. Not so with R1's. Also, while watching the film, I can usually pick up on the cues and motifs/themes; once again, I did not with R1. I'll need to listen to it more to give more details on specific tracks and musical connections.

Ding-dong; Alderavon calling... (see? unfunny pun :p )
 

Snowtrooper

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Sep 14, 2006
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I got around to seeing it with my daughters last night and we all really enjoyed it. Definitely has a different feel from the rest of the SW movies, almost like Saving Private Ryan. Here's a few random thoughts:

-Even though Tarkin looked CGIish, I thoroughly enjoyed his appearance, so I instantly forgave wherever it looked kinda bad. He was one of my favorite baddies from the OT and he couldn't appear on the screen enough for me. Leia's odd appearance didn't bother me much either.

-Really liked Vader's appearance. I thought seeing him getting pulled out of the bacta tank was kinda creepy(my 9yr old didn't want to look). I had no problem with Vader's "choke on your ambition" pun as it comes off more like a threat than a joke. It was kind of like him saying "Perhaps you think your being treated unfairly?" to Lando. His second appearance killing the rebels was the Vader many of us wanted to see for a long time: ****ed off and killing everybody in sight. I wish they would've extended that scene maybe a couple more minutes. There's been alot of talk about his costume. The experts have a long list of things wrong with it. The only thing that took me out of the movie for a moment was when he was talking to Krennic and turned his head a bit, for a moment it seemed like a cheap mask. The red eyes didn't bother me since the original ANH Vader had amber lenses and it was how the light caught them.

-Really liked K-2SO. The movie needed a light moment here and there or otherwise it would've been too grim.

-I didn't care much for the score. It just felt like someone half assed it. It left me wanting a John Williams score or at least a Williams inspired one.

-Since this is not an idealistic SW movie, I didn't have a problem with the rebels doing some less than reputable things.

-Thought they could've done a little better job putting Red and Gold leader into it given the technology they have, but not really a big deal.

-The Kiber crystals powering both jedi weapons and the death star was interesting.

-Mon Mothma was great. Wasn't aware it was the same actress as in ROTS

-Really liked Galen Erso also. I enjoy just about anything Mads Mikkelsen is in

-Didn't like the mind reading creature either. Probably should've been cut.

-Seeing all the OT vehicles in action again was awesome, even though the AT-ACT's were destroyed just a little too easily.
 

figrin bran

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Thought of a few more things:

What was Jyn's mother, Lyra is her name I believe, hoping to accomplish by pointing a blaster at Krennic? Is that the best course of action to help one's family in that situation especially since she could have just easily fled away with Jyn?

Jyn's pep talk to the Alliance feels unearned by her and unbefitting what we've seen of her up to that point.

Galen's flaw that he built into the Death Star required a one in a trillion shot from Luke. Red Leader, Gold Leader, all the best Rebellion pilots were all unable to exploit the flaw so what good is it if it's so extremely difficult?
 

Tycho

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Aug 16, 2001
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I really liked the film and have seen it three times now. I have been reading all of your responses but I'm tired and won't say too much. I read that George Lucas like to this film better Dan the force awakens. I love to sing the dark side of the Rebellion and showing how they would do to Jim's father what the death Troopers in the Empire did to her mother.

I think it is interesting that where is the only link to Vader finding the secret rebel base. But I assume his Star Destroyer immediately jumped into hyperspace after Leia's ship and we see the result at the first scene in A New Hope. So he did not stick around to take prisoners but presumed the ship that got away when he knew and saw the data tapes being passed through that ship's airlock from the one that he invaded. I was really surprised that the 10 to 4 was hidden and docked with the mon calamari ship. That was an awesome scene.

I assume that once Vader Star Destroyer Chase Tulia the other rebel ships were able to escape since the other Imperial Star Destroyers were destroyed.

That would explain why there aren't more prisoners so the Empire could find Yavin base.

I thought the guy that needs before Vader was director krennic in that rope. He is obviously some kind of dark side had it then and it was not clinic in that scene in the hood. All the guys in hoods can look alike such that they're threatening George Zimmerman. So I guess I'm mistaken and the guy that neeld was not director chronic.

But I thoroughly enjoyed the film. Actually when somebody made mention of toys I wondered if they were going to bring out the turbo tank again and make a box showing a Prison Break with Rebels attacking Stormtroopers to free Jim?
 

Bel-Cam Jos

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Trivia! One of the details I try to get on the first viewing (but I had forgotten to post about) is the first/last words of each new film.

First spoken word(s) of Rogue One is/are...?

Last spoken word(s) of Rogue One is/are...?


Answers below (after just one viewing, I think I'm right)


First: "Momma!"
Last: "Hope."


Good luck; you're gonna need it.